Episode 35

TWC Review and Breakdown of The Rings of Power Season 2 SDCC and Official Trailer

The SDCC and Official Trailers for The Rings of Power Season 2 have come out and Philip and Mark give a breakdown and review of the trailers. They discuss the excitement around new characters like Tom Bombadil and the Entwives, the portrayal of lore characters, and major plotlines such as The Fall of Eregion and Sauron's deception. They also explore personal excitement for the upcoming season and offer speculation about various elements shown in the trailers.

00:00 Introduction

02:23 Level of Excitement After the Trailers and Some Breakdown

03:45 Tom Bombadil!!

06:42 The Rings Of Power: Creation, Order, Influece

07:44 Sauron's Cunning Deception

08:43 Action Scenes, Battle of Eregion

10:25 Celebrimbor and Sauron

13:00 Galadriel Is Captured and Susceptible to Sauron

15:10 Entwives!

16:40 Wizards and Magic

17:51 Numenor, Miriel, and a Pool

19:59 Worms Underground

21:16 Elrond Wants to Destroy Rings (Remind You of LOTR?)

23:21 Excitement for the First Season Compared to the Second Season

29:12 Hoping For Memorable Content

29:48 What Happens At a Major Battle? Calvary Charge!

30:33 What Would It Take to Stop Watching The Rings of Power 2?

34:45 There Needs to Be a Good Hook

35:18 Conclusion

Transcript
Philip:

The Comicon and the official trailer for the rings of power season

Philip:

two have come out and in this episode, we're going to be reviewing and breaking

Philip:

down those trailers and talking about the similarities and differences between the

Philip:

lore and what Amazon's put in their shows.

Philip:

So we'll kind of have a projection of what's going to happen in season two,

Philip:

along with talking about some different characters and creatures that are coming

Philip:

up, that haven't been in cinema before.

Philip:

Such as Tom Bombadil and the Entwives.

Philip:

Hopefully that's going to be Treebeard's, wife, actually from the lore.

Philip:

And then getting into some other things.

Philip:

So speculations or just ideas behind Celebrimbor, and Sauron, and

Philip:

Galadriel and the rings and how they effect people in different ways.

Philip:

So, with that let's dive right in.

Philip Intro:

Welcome, my lords, to the White City, where you will learn

Philip Intro:

more about Middle-earth and discover differences and similarities between

Philip Intro:

the Rings of Power show and Tolkien's books, and whether Amazon's show,

Philip Intro:

episode by episode, is worth watching.

Philip Intro:

I'm Philip Dudt your host, and I'll be joined by Matt Vandevort and

Philip Intro:

Mark Schaeffer I hope you enjoy.

Philip:

Hey everyone, thanks for tuning in to The White City Podcast.

Philip:

Today I have with me my co host, Mark Schaefer, and we're going to be discussing

Philip:

the two trailers that have come out recently for the Rings of Power Season 2.

Philip:

Both the Comic Con trailer and the official trailer.

Philip:

So some things we want to touch on are just, if we're, if these

Philip:

trailers have got us excited for the show, kind of how accurate are the

Philip:

details to things that are talked about in the books, and character

Philip:

portrayals, and things like that.

Philip:

So, I know like, one thing for me going into this, I thought the

Philip:

Comic Con trailer was pretty cool.

Philip:

It showed Tom Bombadil, which is neat, cause he hasn't

Philip:

come on screen ever before.

Philip:

So I think that's, that's a pretty neat thing.

Philip:

And another thing I thought was cool was it brought up some Ents, and

Philip:

also, I think they brought up a troll.

Philip:

So, Anyways, those are a few things that kind of caught my attention and

Philip:

got me a little more excited than than I was at least with the teaser trailer

Philip:

going to things, but how about you Mark?

Mark:

Yeah, I'm definitely, I think, more excited than after the teaser trailer.

Mark:

I think the more trailers came out, like, sort of the more hype there is.

Mark:

Yeah, as a quick like breakdown, maybe.

Mark:

So what I saw in the trailer was that for the Gand the wizard, and the

Mark:

hobbit storyline, they're traveling, they meet Tom Bombadil at some point.

Mark:

And it seems like there's also maybe some Easterlings involved as well as some

Mark:

other group of like the wizard ladies that were in the last, uh, last season.

Mark:

It seems like Isildur is trying to escape, Mordor and he runs into Shelob maybe and

Mark:

he's fighting some spiders in the trailer.

Mark:

There's also a big, it seems like most of the story will revolve around the

Mark:

fall of Eregion and then in, Khazad-dûm we're going to have like the ring being

Mark:

corrupting the older Durin and the younger Durin having to play off that.

Mark:

And maybe there's like some people being arrested in Numenor.

Mark:

So those are like sort of the big storylines for this, season

Mark:

from what I saw in the trailer.

Mark:

And definitely what has me most excited I think is they're gonna be

Mark:

the Khazad-dûm storylines because that was sort of my favorite from the first

Mark:

season was the Durin's relationship with Elrond and with his father.

Mark:

I think they'll all be a big part of this next season, coming up.

Mark:

So that's what has me most excited.

Mark:

What has you most excited Phil?

Philip:

That's a good question.

Philip:

I think I think Tom Bombadil is, is gonna have me most excited

Philip:

probably out of all of them.

Philip:

That and Maybe like seeing the elves that, I guess that's Eregion, would be

Philip:

cool too, but we already we've already seen that to a certain extent though,

Philip:

I think in the first season, but.

Mark:

I forgot to mention as well, there's going to be some like Sauron

Mark:

corrupting Celebrimbor and like building the other rings, which I think also

Mark:

is going to be pretty exciting too.

Mark:

And yeah.

Mark:

I think it's interesting because this maybe will be what we'll talk about

Mark:

this podcast, but it's Tom Bombadil.

Mark:

You could say a lot and write a lot about Tom Bombadil.

Mark:

Personally, I think there's like a reason that he wasn't in the old,

Mark:

Lord, like the original Lord of the Rings movies, it's because it's a

Mark:

very difficult character to portray.

Mark:

A lot of people say, you know, he just seems like he's straight from

Mark:

another movie or book series, or he's just a very strange character.

Mark:

And it's sort of what gives Middle-earth its flavor that like anything can

Mark:

happen, and it's like a wide world.

Mark:

But it's also like in a strict, plot, budget sort of thing.

Mark:

I don't know if they're really going to do the character justice, especially with

Mark:

how I've seen the character, how they've seen them do other characters in the show.

Mark:

I don't know if I'm really like, I'm almost more scared than I am excited to

Mark:

see how Tom Bobadil is portrayed, I guess.

Mark:

But what are your thoughts, Phil?

Philip:

Yeah.

Philip:

That's a good point.

Philip:

I don't think yeah, I don't think he is going to be easy because he is

Philip:

such a unique character Yeah Yeah, as you're saying, yeah, it can you know,

Philip:

anything can happen in Middle-earth, but at the same time, he seems to

Philip:

be almost like, have the ability to just be out of the world, and just

Philip:

coming into it for like a short time.

Philip:

He doesn't have much of an effect on anything, right, like you see him

Philip:

in The Fellowship of the Ring and with the Hobbits and that's just about it.

Philip:

But.

Mark:

He also like, sings constantly in The Fellowship of the Ring and

Mark:

is like, unaffected by anything and like always very lighthearted

Mark:

and says almost nothing serious.

Mark:

And from the couple of shots we see in the trailer, we see him like be very serious

Mark:

and give like very important advice to Gandalf, or the wizard character.

Mark:

So I'm sort of already, I'm like, that's like not really how the character goes.

Mark:

Yeah, at least in the book.

Mark:

like I said, we have to see it like for the whole thing to make our final

Mark:

judgments, but like I said, I'm more nervous going into it than I am excited.

Philip:

Right, I got that.

Philip:

Yeah, because with Tom Bombadil, he's more of the guy who's like, gonna

Philip:

be like, singing songs and dancing around and not really caring about

Philip:

the rest of the world hardly, right?

Mark:

Yeah, or even that he just is unaffected, like

Mark:

unaffected by things, right?

Mark:

Like he's singing constantly.

Mark:

He puts on The Ring as sort of the famous thing and it doesn't make him invisible

Mark:

and he does like magic tricks with it.

Mark:

Um, So just like a very strange character, but always sort of light hearted.

Mark:

And strai, like, yeah, strange.

Mark:

And I will see how they portray the character.

Mark:

Yeah,

Philip:

So one thing also I was thinking of, so, it kinda jumps pretty far

Philip:

forward, I think, into the trailer, but, I know, like, Celebrimbor, doesn't he

Philip:

like, pour rings into like, the fire?

Mark:

He does, which is sort of interesting.

Mark:

and that was, I think the other thing.

Mark:

So in the first season we saw the, the original three elven rings created,

Mark:

and I, I was not a huge fan of that cause that's actually the opposite

Mark:

of the way they're created the books.

Mark:

In the books Sauron comes together with Celebrimbor, and they create the nine and

Mark:

the seven, so the sixteen original rings.

Mark:

And then, he leaves to go make the One Ring, and the elves create the

Mark:

three elven rings on their own without him, which is why the elven rings

Mark:

are not really influenced by Sauron as much as the other rings are.

Mark:

Um, and in this series, it seems like, oh, they're actually going to play it

Mark:

like Galadriel's being affected through The Ring, and that's like sort of

Mark:

changing her, her mind on things and she's seeing visions through the ring.

Mark:

And I'm not sure if that's like really going to be lore accurate,

Mark:

um, maybe it'll be really cool.

Mark:

But yeah, I think it was interesting that Celebrimbor seems to be like, Sauron

Mark:

has him under a spell where Celebrimbor thinks everything is fine in the city.

Mark:

And actually Sauron has taken over and there's orcs running around, I

Mark:

think is actually what's going on.

Mark:

And he has like, mind tricked Celebrimbor into like, thinking that the city is fine

Mark:

and to help him like, keep making rings.

Mark:

Which seems like very Sauron esque, that he sort of has created this pall

Mark:

over everything to make everything look good and beautiful whenever under

Mark:

underneath it's all rotten to the core.

Philip:

Yeah.

Philip:

That's interesting, so not that necessarily those exact details are in the

Philip:

books, about the way Sauron is corrupting Celebrimbor, but it's just the way

Philip:

they're doing it in the show seems kind of, like you were saying, Sauron esque.

Mark:

Yeah, for sure.

Mark:

Um...

Mark:

and we'll get the chance to hopefully see them make some rings together.

Mark:

Like, last season it was very short, and I'm hoping they spend

Mark:

more time on it this season, and get to see them together, but yeah.

Mark:

I think, and The Fall of Eregion could be a really great storyline, and I think,

Mark:

I think where I thought that The Lord of the Rings original movies thrived was

Mark:

that, like, a lot of the action scenes are not portrayed super, like, specifically.

Mark:

Obviously, like, whenever you talk about an action scene from a book

Mark:

perspective, it doesn't lay out a lot of the details, whereas, like, a movie sort

Mark:

of is able to flesh out those details.

Mark:

And Peter Jackson's action is, I think what really stands

Mark:

out to me, about those movies.

Mark:

Everybody remembers, you know, Helm's Deep.

Mark:

It's like one of the most classic middle medieval battle

Mark:

scenes that everyone copied.

Mark:

And then even the Pelennor Fields, it's all great.

Mark:

And I hope that they can do sort of something similar with the

Mark:

Fall of Eregion, because Tolkien writes only a few lines about it.

Mark:

We know Elrond will go to try to save the city.

Mark:

and will ultimately fail and I think at some point in the lore the dwarves come

Mark:

to save him and that's actually why Elrond has a great relationship with the dwarves.

Mark:

um, going forward, so yeah.

Mark:

So It could even be that like what the Durin's are fighting in in Khazad-dûm

Mark:

is whether to go save Elrond and the other, the older Durin is corrupted

Mark:

by the ring to think like oh we shouldn't go help and younger Durin

Mark:

wants to save his friend Elrond.

Mark:

And so is trying to push the dwarves to lead and fight and save,

Philip:

Okay.

Philip:

That's cool.

Philip:

And That's at Eregion that they'd be

Philip:

going

Mark:

That's at

Mark:

Eregion,

Philip:

then.

Philip:

Okay.

Mark:

And, again, lore, lore, lore spoilers here, so we'll see how

Mark:

closely the show follows, but, Eregion actually does fall in the lore.

Mark:

And while they're escaping, while Elrond is escaping from the fall

Mark:

of Eregion, he finds Rivendell, and that's like when he founds the city.

Mark:

Um, but yeah.

Philip:

Nice.

Philip:

Yeah.

Philip:

So another thing in the, in the trailer, you have, I think, I can't

Philip:

remember if it was the official one.

Philip:

It might have been the official one.

Philip:

Where Sauron tells Celebrimbor, like, I want the nine.

Mark:

Yeah.

Philip:

that's, I don't know if that would be like, the first ones then

Philip:

that they're creating in the show, but.

Mark:

Yeah, so it's kind of curious.

Mark:

It seems like Celebrimbor tries to destroy them or hides them in some

Mark:

way and, and Sauron wants them back.

Mark:

Also, they didn't say the 16, so maybe since we see that Durin already has

Mark:

a ring, that Sauron has already sent out the seven rings, and therefore,

Mark:

to the dwarves, and therefore only the nine are left, and that's why he's,

Mark:

like, what they're arguing about.

Philip:

Um,

Mark:

But yeah, it's interesting that Celebrimbor, though Sauron seems

Mark:

to be in control the whole time, Celebrimbor is sort of able to, hide

Mark:

these rings or something and that maybe he's tortured for them in the end.

Philip:

Right, because that's kind of, because he's, in the uh, in the lore

Philip:

he's still able to kind of have control of himself to some extent, right?

Mark:

Yeah, again, everything sort of happened differently in the lore.

Mark:

In the lore, Sauron makes the one ring and then comes back and rather than

Mark:

like a battle of wits or the, or him like mind controlling Celebrimbor,

Mark:

it's a straight up battle and Celebrimbor actually physically fights

Mark:

Sauron and is eventually defeated.

Mark:

And then he's like tortured and killed.

Philip:

Yeah

Mark:

yeah.

Philip:

It is interesting too.

Philip:

I think we've talked about it before we kind of see Celebrimbor in the

Philip:

show as being just kind of like this guy who just like, you know works

Philip:

metal and like, you know, it doesn't really isn't much of a fighter almost

Philip:

but I think it's very much very much different in the in the lore, but.

Mark:

Yeah, it's interesting.

Mark:

Maybe that's like, I think that we've sort of like picked up on is

Mark:

that like, in Tolkien's mythology, like power, beauty and craftsmanship

Mark:

are all sort of intertwined, right?

Mark:

So like, we think like a Feanor, like Celebrimbor's grandfather, who also

Mark:

is like a great craftsman, but he's also like very powerful in battle.

Mark:

And it's interesting that like they sort of seem to like try to split this in the

Mark:

show where like, you know, Galadriel is like, just a fighter, and Celebrimbor

Mark:

is sort of just like this, craftsman or whatever, and they don't really mix

Mark:

those roles, whereas like, in the lore, they're actually like, very, mixed quite

Mark:

frequently, right, that someone who has both like, magical power and the ability

Mark:

to make beautiful things is simultaneously beautiful, in fact, er, simultaneously

Mark:

powerful, and can fight very well, and in fact, those two things seem to

Mark:

be like correlated in Tolkien's mind that the ability to create is also the

Mark:

ability of, uh, is, is like power itself.

Philip:

Yeah, that's cool.

Philip:

So, something, something else I picked up in the trailer, which I

Philip:

thought was a little interesting, is that Galadriel seems to be,

Philip:

like, captured at a certain point.

Philip:

So, I don't know, I don't know if that's, like, after the Battle of

Philip:

Eregion, or if that's gonna be, you know, in another setting, but.

Philip:

I kind of thought it was interesting.

Philip:

Because, I mean, as we've talked about before, and you kind of get that sense

Philip:

of her like, you know, Gladriel isn't, I mean, in, in the lore more, isn't

Philip:

weak in the sense maybe of like magic.

Philip:

And even here in the show, I feel like she wouldn't be weak in the sense of

Philip:

like, just battle skills and fighting.

Philip:

And yet she's like, captured.

Philip:

So it'd just kind of be interesting.

Philip:

I think that Sauron plays a part in that too, but.

Mark:

Yeah, it's, it's interesting from the trailer, it seemed like it was Adar

Mark:

and his group of orcs who captured her.

Mark:

That was just sort of my understanding of the trailer.

Mark:

There's like this one scene where they're like sitting across the dining room table,

Mark:

like a dining room table from each other.

Mark:

Adar and Galadriel.

Mark:

And I think that's actually also what's like sort of maybe a little bit, confusing

Mark:

in the trailer, or is what is at least keeping me guessing, is like, there's

Mark:

gonna be Adar and his orcs, and Sauron and his orcs, so we don't always know if

Mark:

it's the orcs, if that's with which group.

Mark:

So that I think could have big ramifications for the plot.

Mark:

It seems like Adar is trying to convince Galadriel to join him against Sauron.

Mark:

And well, that probably will not work out super well, but

Mark:

we'll see how it ends up going.

Philip:

Okay, yeah.

Philip:

Because at the ending, one of the ending scenes there, maybe that's in

Philip:

the comic con one, is like, Galadriel and Sauron fighting at a certain point.

Philip:

So, yeah, they make it seem like Sauron's about to overcome her in some way.

Mark:

Yeah.

Mark:

I think the other thing I was going to say is that I think they're going to

Mark:

try to try to say like the rings allow Sauron to show people visions and stuff.

Mark:

So that also could just be a vision of like Sauron and Galadriel.

Mark:

That's also what's keeping me guessing a lot on the trailer is

Mark:

that like, you know, you're not sure what Sauron showing people weird

Mark:

things through the rings or whatever.

Mark:

Um, and

Mark:

His ability to influence them.

Mark:

I think there's a lot else to be excited about too.

Mark:

I think I also was like pretty interested in the Entwives.

Mark:

I wonder if it will actually be (Fimbrethil) Febrethel I think is the name

Mark:

of Treebeard's wife in the, in the books.

Mark:

But yeah, I'm curious to see if that will be her

Mark:

cause like, she's sort of the only Entwife we actually know anything about.

Mark:

But yeah, it's actually, I think, lore accurate that during this period

Mark:

of time, the Entwives were still, in Middle-earth, and that whatever happens

Mark:

to them after, Sauron burns down the forest, uh, Fangorn, we don't we don't

Mark:

know, but they, like, go missing after that, so it'll be super interesting.

Philip:

Okay.

Philip:

Oh, so.

Philip:

Okay, that's another part of lore entirely.

Philip:

It's like, about the Entwives, but, I thought they, I thought they, like,

Philip:

for like a long time before Saru Saruman, had, had disappeared, but.

Mark:

No.

Mark:

So they're.

Mark:

What happens is that whenever the Last Alliance of Elves and Men

Mark:

goes to fight Sauron, Sauron burns a large part of Fangorn Forest.

Mark:

I think it's Fangorn Forest, but it might be a different

Mark:

forest where the Entwives were.

Mark:

And the Entwives, they're not sure if they're killed in that fire or if they

Mark:

escape it or like just somewhere else now.

Mark:

So it's sort of like unknown at this point.

Mark:

Some people think that the Entwives are actually the trees that are surrounding

Mark:

where Tom Bombadil lives, though that's not entirely clear, and I don't think

Mark:

that's actually what happens in the lore.

Mark:

Um,

Philip:

I gotcha.

Philip:

All right, that makes a little more sense then.

Philip:

Any other, uh,

Mark:

Yeah,

Mark:

Well, I was gonna say, like, the, the hobbit, I forget

Mark:

her name, honestly, already.

Mark:

but, the hobbit that goes traveling with the stranger, and

Mark:

she meets Nori, Nori, right?

Mark:

Nori, yeah,

Mark:

So Nori is like going to go meet with like, there's like the more of these like

Mark:

mystic white people who have like magic powers and stuff, from the first season,

Mark:

and also maybe somebody said like another wizard, which would

Mark:

be pretty cool to learn about.

Mark:

Like maybe seeing a blue wizard for the first time.

Mark:

I think that could be really interesting.

Mark:

Again, I say that like, it was super interesting to me that they like

Mark:

portrayed these like random people in the show as having these magic powers.

Mark:

When like magic is something that's like throughout all of Middle-earth,

Mark:

especially like among the elves and uh, and the dwarves, it's like more

Mark:

common and it was like, oh Galadriel has like no magic in the show, right?

Mark:

And the elves sort of just use magic whenever they're gonna create magic

Mark:

rings that Sauron helped them make.

Mark:

But like so far there's no, but not any other magic they've

Mark:

really shown in the show

Mark:

But just sort of goes back to my maybe my previous gripe about like they should

Mark:

have made more magic in Middle-earth

Philip:

Right, that's interesting.

Philip:

Yeah,

Mark:

What do you think is

Mark:

going to go down in Numenor this season?

Philip:

Oh, Numenor.

Philip:

Yeah, that's another part of the, uh, of the trailer, that's kind of interesting,

Philip:

and I think I was watching a review too that was kind of pointing this out

Philip:

a little more, because I wouldn't have like picked it up myself, but there's

Philip:

this, there's like this pool, almost like uh, I don't know what you'd call it,

Philip:

like a, like a big pool of like water, in a sense, like next to the ocean.

Philip:

It's kind of like, somehow um, like separated from it.

Philip:

But there's like this, I thought they called it the worm.

Philip:

So, it's like this, I think we saw it in the teaser trailer.

Philip:

It was like, this kind of big, like, gnarly shark looking thing.

Mark:

Yeah, Muriel goes underneath the

Mark:

water and like, sees this giant

Philip:

Yeah.

Philip:

Yeah, I think that's it.

Philip:

So I, I'm interested to see, like, why, why, that happened.

Philip:

Maybe because they were convicting her of being, like, treasonous

Philip:

or something, I don't know.

Mark:

Yeah,

Mark:

I think it's interesting too, because like, we're not sure how fast the

Mark:

timeline is going to be, because we know that there's going to be like,

Mark:

the Kingsmen factions, and the faithful factions of the Numenoreans, and we're

Mark:

not sure, like, if that's going to be already this season, if they're going to

Mark:

portray, like, this big divide between Ar-Pharazôn and Elendil already, or

Mark:

if they're going to, like, wait and flush that over a couple more seasons.

Mark:

I think that is also, like, oh, how will Miriel play into that?

Mark:

I think it's also, like, will Miriel already be part of the Kingsmen factions?

Mark:

Is she already being ousted by Ar-Pharazôn?

Mark:

Yeah, and I'm sort of also curious to see if like, Ar-Pharazôn is going to use

Mark:

like, Miriel's blindness against her and be like, hey, she's not fit to be queen,

Mark:

she's not fit to lead because she's blind.

Mark:

Seems like that might be something that would be very cinematic,

Mark:

and sort of portray the plight of people who are blind, uh, through

Philip:

would,

Philip:

Yeah, she would definitely seem to be on the side of the faithful, right?

Mark:

She is in the books, And from what

Mark:

we've seen in the trailer so far, or what we've seen from her in the

Mark:

first season, I would assume that would be the case as well in the show.

Mark:

Hmm

Philip:

Another snippet that I saw, which maybe it didn't come from

Philip:

a trailer, but there apparently is going to be like a worm.

Philip:

So like in the ground, I don't, I'm not even entirely sure how accurate

Philip:

it is to lore, but basically like they go in the ground and then like pop out

Philip:

of it, in different places, I guess.

Philip:

And I, that's what I saw.

Philip:

And I can't remember if it was in one of the

Mark:

Yes, I think in the, like, um, in the, Nori and the stranger

Mark:

looking, like, their desert place or something, they find, like, the worm.

Mark:

I think the only time I can think of is in the Hobbit movies, there were

Mark:

like those three worms that helped the orc army, goblin army, moved, like,

Mark:

through, through the cover of, daytime.

Mark:

that's not lore accurate at all.

Mark:

Like, in the lore, they're just, like, moving and the army's just

Mark:

a bit easy finding each other.

Mark:

They don't see the orc army coming.

Mark:

but yeah.

Philip:

Right,

Mark:

I,

Mark:

I, did, I do remember seeing that, so maybe that will be

Mark:

a part of that storyline.

Mark:

yeah.

Philip:

That'd be interesting to see a lot of different, uh, living

Philip:

creatures, from, uh, from the lore.

Philip:

You know, things that haven't haven't been on, on the screen

Philip:

yet for Lord of the Rings.

Mark:

For sure.

Mark:

I think there's like lots of other things going on.

Mark:

I think there's also like this um, in the trailers there's this scene where like, oh

Mark:

they're deciding whether or not to use the rings, and Galadriel and Gil galad seems

Mark:

to want to use it and Elrond doesn't.

Mark:

Like maybe Elrond just has a thing for destroying rings, and that's why, you

Mark:

know, whenever in the, in The Fellowship of the Ring, he's like, you know, we have

Mark:

to destroy it, it's just like, that's his thing with rings, he's like, we

Mark:

gotta, we gotta destroy them, but yeah.

Philip:

You kind of wonder Yeah, cause, uh I guess this was more in

Philip:

the teaser trailer, but you had Elrond telling, like, Galadriel, like, No!

Philip:

Like, don't put it on!

Mark:

Yea, yea, yea!

Mark:

Very reminiscent of the movies, right?.

Philip:

Right?

Philip:

Because they know, like, where, where the rings come from.

Philip:

That they know, Oh, it came from Sauron..

Mark:

And this, this maybe is like sort of tying in with like another

Mark:

slight criticism of the first season I had, and I think it's going to play

Mark:

on the second season as well, but that like, they're just trying to

Mark:

sort of recreate moments or shots or concepts from the first, the first,

Mark:

Peter Jackson trilogy without, like, actually caring about the lore very much.

Mark:

And like, the Elven rings play, like, a very different role, but it seems

Mark:

like the show's gonna want to make them, like, the One Ring, where it's,

Mark:

like, tempting them and stuff, and they're, like, worried about being

Mark:

corrupted by the power of them.

Mark:

And, like, that's not really the role they played, right?

Mark:

And, like, that's the One Ring, and they're just gonna try, like, oh, it's,

Mark:

like, the One Ring all over again, is like, yeah, and Elrond is like

Mark:

saying don't use them or whatever.

Mark:

So, so we'll see how that plays out in the show, but I think there were

Mark:

definitely a couple times in the, in the first season where I was like, oh,

Mark:

this is very reminiscent of the first, Peter Jackson movies, but like sort of

Mark:

in their own, own flavor and also like very different in many ways, because

Mark:

the lore is, being heavily adapted.

Philip:

Right, yeah, there's, there's definitely a lot of things that I

Philip:

guess they're trying to, you know, change up for themselves, make things

Philip:

a little different than before.

Philip:

and necessarily, I don't know, for good or bad, you know.

Philip:

But, yeah.

Mark:

Alright.

Mark:

Can you tell me, like, how excited you were whenever the first season came out?

Mark:

And, like, can you compare, like, your excitement then to your excitement,

Mark:

like, now for the second season?

Philip:

Yeah, that's a good question

Philip:

I'd have to say that going into the first season, I was definitely,

Philip:

like, very, like, how do you say?

Philip:

Just, Low expectations, I guess.

Philip:

Low expectations.

Philip:

I didn't really know what to expect.

Philip:

I was, I was among a lot of people who were thinking like, oh, this

Philip:

is gonna be, maybe this is gonna be kind of like risque and like, kind of

Philip:

like a Game of Thrones kind of thing.

Philip:

So, very, very wary of that.

Philip:

I mean, before the show came out, I think it was pretty well, pretty

Philip:

well kind of quenched that the risqué content might be in there, so.

Philip:

Then it became more of like, oh, like, is this going to be just a thing to

Philip:

like, promote woke, you know, a woke agenda just to like, get people to

Philip:

watch it, you know, in that sense?

Philip:

Or are they actually going to do it to, because they want to

Philip:

make a Lord of the Rings thing?

Philip:

And then like, yeah, so like, anyways.

Philip:

So going into it, I was pretty unbiased in a sense, I'd say.

Philip:

Yeah.

Philip:

Just, you know, hey, start a podcast for it.

Philip:

I'm gonna, I'm just gonna watch the show and then, like, critique it, you

Philip:

know, with some other friends, where I kind of figure out, you know, where it's

Philip:

going, help people who kind of don't know much about Lord of the Rings, so that,

Philip:

hey, like, you want to figure out more and find differences and similarities,

Philip:

like, Hey, come watch the podcast.

Philip:

So that was kind of like how I was going into it.

Philip:

I wasn't, I wasn't, I'd say, like, I don't know.

Philip:

I, in a sense, I kind of feel, oh, they might be changing some things

Philip:

about the lore, and like, that's kind of important to, an important

Philip:

point to, you know, to not miss.

Philip:

But, yeah, I mean, that was, that was probably how I, how I felt about it.

Philip:

Yeah.

Philip:

Yeah.

Philip:

How about you?

Mark:

Yeah, it's hard to remember.

Mark:

I mean, I remember watching, like, the first episodes in your basement

Mark:

and stuff, and that was, like, super exciting and super thrilling.

Mark:

And I sort of, like, I guess I kept waiting for the first season

Mark:

to, like, really, like, get going.

Mark:

It's like the first episodes were good, but they were sort of,

Mark:

like, building towards something.

Mark:

And, like, the Sauron reveal at the end was kind of cool, but, like,

Mark:

ultimately, I feel like I was probably, like, an 8 or, like, 9 out of 10

Mark:

excited at the beginning of the season.

Mark:

And I think the season really disappointed, and I guess I would have

Mark:

said I was a lot lower, like maybe a, even like a 3 or a 4 this, for this season.

Mark:

But like the trailers have got me a little excited, so maybe

Mark:

I'm like a 5 or a 6 now, but um,

Mark:

Yeah.

Mark:

I had this like one other question, maybe follow up, like part of the reason I'm

Mark:

not super excited is cause like, because there's been like a long break, I've had

Mark:

like sort of time, between like now and the time we like finish watching the show.

Mark:

And I've sort of been surprised by how forgettable the first

Mark:

season is in many ways.

Mark:

Like, I don't really remember a lot, I do remember a lot of the things, but I wasn't

Mark:

thinking about them, or the concepts didn't really grip me in many ways.

Mark:

I mean it's, I mean it's hard to compare them to Peter Jackson's trilogy, but

Mark:

like, those movies you watch once and you never forget them, right?

Mark:

And you have them line for line, scene for scene, and now it's hard to remember

Mark:

a lot of what the first season, like, even characters names, like I remember

Mark:

certain shots, but I, I mean, I had a hard time remembering who Nori was,

Mark:

and she, they spent a lot of time with her in the first season, and

Mark:

yeah, just like a lot of other things.

Mark:

And so I think, like, I really hope that the fall of Eregion is really

Mark:

good, and that, like, it's a really memorable, and like, this sort of

Mark:

second season makes their mark.

Mark:

Because I think Amazon has plans for many more seasons after this one, right?

Philip:

Right, yeah, they, they probably have maybe up to like five from, from

Philip:

the last, the last I knew And, I mean, who knows, too, like, I think they, I

Philip:

think they understood they got a lot of backlash, and they also understood, like,

Philip:

how they needed to improve some things.

Philip:

I, I, I mean, I don't follow a ton of shows to really know if, you know, if,

Philip:

uh, Well, if it's like, takes two years, you know, for the next season to come out.

Philip:

Or if they're more like, oh hey, after the first year we crank out the next one.

Philip:

And just like, every year they keep putting out shows.

Philip:

So, if that's typical of a lot of shows, then does seem that they've

Philip:

kind of tried to take their time a little bit more on this one.

Philip:

But yeah, I'm not sure.

Mark:

I, I think it's interesting, too, looking back at, the last

Mark:

season I'm trying to think if there's anything that like really had me

Mark:

thinking that oh they've changed their minds on something this season

Mark:

because of fan backlash or something.

Mark:

It seems like Galadriel is going to be very much what we saw last season.

Mark:

I think that's where most fan backlash came from is the portrayal of Galadriel.

Mark:

There may be one exception to that is it seemed like Sauron went back to

Mark:

Mordor at the end of last season and now he's like back in Eregion and he's

Mark:

going to be Annatar, the Lord of Gifts.

Mark:

or the, the Giver of Gifts or something.

Philip:

Right.

Philip:

Yeah.

Mark:

specifically

Mark:

Annatar.

Mark:

Somebody said it might be like a rights issue.

Mark:

Yeah, I think it'll be interesting to see if that change was maybe because

Mark:

of a lore thing, They're like, oh we like sort of just did the three

Mark:

rings But now we feel like because we had the fan backlash, we're gonna

Mark:

make Sauron go back or something, um.

Mark:

But it seems like they're very much sticking to their guns, which I guess

Mark:

I can respect, though I, I still wish they would change Galadriel.

Philip:

Right yeah.

Philip:

Change Galadriel.

Philip:

Make things a little more exciting, hopefully.

Philip:

Like,

Philip:

starting out or trying to grip people a little bit more.

Philip:

That'd be good.

Philip:

Yeah,

Philip:

More magic.

Philip:

That's true.

Philip:

They didn't really Yeah,

Philip:

that's

Philip:

hardly, uh,

Philip:

hardly in there at all.

Philip:

Yeah, but

Mark:

Yeah.

Mark:

That's

Mark:

just my pet peeve.

Mark:

But I, I think the fall of Eregion, like, I guess the, the battle scene in like

Mark:

the charge of the, like, Numenoreans on the horseback in the last season.

Mark:

Like it just seemed very short and was like very anti climactic for me.

Mark:

So I hope like the fall of Eregion is like, wow, this is a big battle scene.

Mark:

It's very intense, very memorable.

Mark:

and I hope, yeah, I hope it's good.

Philip:

Yeah.

Philip:

Because

Mark:

Because

Philip:

Yeah, keep going.

Mark:

Well, I was gonna say though, I'm usually the one

Mark:

that's critical of the show.

Mark:

I don't, I don't hate it and would I'm gonna watch it.

Mark:

So it may as well be good.

Philip:

Yeah.

Philip:

Yeah, it was neat to have the uh It seemed it seemed like the charge, like, that

Philip:

Elrond was leading in the trailer, was a little more a little more epic, or a

Philip:

little more uh, thought out than the uh, than in the first season with Numenor.

Philip:

Yeah.

Mark:

Yeah, I mean, I will say that like, I was kinda like another

Mark:

cavalry charge, like . They're like, what do we need to do?

Mark:

That's epic.

Mark:

Like I know a cavalry charge.

Mark:

Like, but we already did that.

Mark:

Let's do it again.

Mark:

Like, I don't know.

Mark:

granted, I guess that like is sort of a thing in Tolkiens is like, oh, we have,

Mark:

how does Helms Deep end calvary charge?

Mark:

What happens at Pelennor Fields?

Mark:

Calvary charge,

Philip:

What happens at Eregion?

Philip:

Calvary charge.

Philip:

Yeah.

Mark:

But what, happens at Eregion?

Mark:

Calvary

Mark:

What happens in the Southlands?

Mark:

Cavalry charge.

Mark:

But yeah.

Mark:

Okay.

Mark:

Phil, here's the real question.

Mark:

What would it take for you for this season to be so bad that you

Mark:

would never watch the season three?

Philip:

Oh, for it to be so bad that I wouldn't watch

Mark:

Yes.

Mark:

Are you like, oh, if it was just like boring or what if, is it like, oh no, they

Mark:

have to like, have some sort of sex scene.

Mark:

They have to, or like, what if they're like super woke?

Mark:

They're like, you know, Talking about

Mark:

like, oh yes, all orcs should be able to use the same bathrooms as

Mark:

elves or something like that, yeah.

Philip:

Yes, haha, yeah, oh man, so, I think for me, a big, I think a big thing

Philip:

would be pretty, like, open, like risque, nudity, sex, like, something like that

Philip:

would, that would, that would definitely, like, I I don't, I just don't care, like,

Philip:

how good everything else was, like, I feel like on many accounts, that would just,

Philip:

you know, Completely kill it, you know.

Mark:

Yeah.

Philip:

You know, and people people would argue.

Philip:

Well, you know, it's you know, I mean everybody was like having kids and Lord

Philip:

of the Rings and like of course they were having sex and this stuff and it's like

Philip:

well Like that's besides the point, you know, I think it's like in my opinion.

Philip:

It's more of the point of like, okay Is this something is this how like

Philip:

Tolkien would really want to put content into the stories and write it?

Philip:

I know I felt like the way like changing characters or you know or

Philip:

places or anything like that would also affect like the lore and how he

Philip:

would have really wanted it as well.

Philip:

I mean I can I can see that.

Philip:

I just feel like it's with like with nudity, it would just be a bigger

Philip:

thing like in a sense like worldview wise and even like woke stuff as

Philip:

well but I wouldn't, like, I wouldn't feel as much about the woke because,

Philip:

I mean, No, the woke, the woke stuff would be so out of place too,

Philip:

and I feel like, I feel Amazon knows that as well, to a certain extent, where

Philip:

they're not gonna be putting that stuff out there, and I mean, there are also,

Philip:

it's kind of crazy actually, at the comic con, I was, I just saw like a few clips

Philip:

that a guy was, talking about and showing from there and it was like a lot of it

Philip:

was actors basically just talking about the show to make sure that like there

Philip:

are certain fans that would like it.

Philip:

You know, some of the fans are being like gay or like transgender and then

Philip:

being like, hey, we're going to be like, recognized by like having character

Philip:

that's going to be like a trainee.

Philip:

And they're like, well, we don't know, maybe, like, there might

Philip:

be a character in there already.

Philip:

They didn't affirm or deny, which is interesting.

Philip:

But, just going back to it though, still, I don't think that they would,

Philip:

that they would really pull that, I, because it, I don't know, that

Philip:

really wouldn't, wouldn't stick with the, with the story in my opinion.

Philip:

So, yeah.

Philip:

So, I mean, if it stayed the way it is, I would, I would continue watching it.

Philip:

If it, yeah, if it stayed the way it is, I don't know, I, I mean, I, I, I'm still

Philip:

having this podcast, and I enjoy doing this podcast, so, even if it, even if it

Philip:

does, like, get, if it, two things, like, maybe woke, but definitely, like, obscene,

Philip:

like, nudity and all that, like, I would definitely, like, not, not, not, comment

Philip:

on the Rings of Power show anymore.

Philip:

At that, at that point.

Mark:

Yeah.

Mark:

I mean, I have it on good authority that Lord of the Rings is a

Mark:

hotbed of conservatism, and that you may be an extreme radical

Mark:

if you like Lord of the Rings.

Mark:

So I think that they, if they have two brain cells put together, they

Mark:

won't make it like any show, like the show woke otherwise their most

Mark:

hardcore fans will leave them right?

Mark:

Sort of the idea.

Mark:

But yeah, I think it's sort of interesting to think about like what

Mark:

would it take for a show to be so bad for me to like stop watching it.

Mark:

And to be honest, I think if this if this show let me down more than the first

Mark:

season did I might stop watching it.

Mark:

I think I'd probably finish the season, but I don't know if I'd

Mark:

go back and watch the season 3.

Mark:

I think the first season, like, what really saved it for me

Mark:

was, like, Sauron's reveal.

Mark:

I was like, wow, that was really cool.

Mark:

They, it was executed very well.

Mark:

They sort of, like, kept people guessing.

Mark:

And that sort of had me interested in the show.

Mark:

But yeah, I'm sort of curious if they'll have another hook like that, that's sort

Mark:

of like a season long mystery this time.

Mark:

If it's who is, what is The Stranger supposed to do, or whatever.

Mark:

Yeah, I'm sort of excited to see that,

Philip:

Yeah, right.

Philip:

Yeah, this, yeah, I think The Stranger would definitely be, be interesting,

Philip:

interesting in the storyline.

Philip:

But, yeah.

Philip:

So, thanks guys for tuning in and listening to our review and kind of

Philip:

breakdown of the two trailers here.

Philip:

And hope to catch you guys for our reviews of The Rings of Power Season 2 episodes.

Philip:

And starting with the, uh, the first three that are coming

Philip:

out there on August 29th, so.

Philip:

Alright.

Philip Outro:

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Philip Outro:

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Philip Outro:

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The White City
A commentary on The Rings of Power and anything Middle Earth or Tolkien related.

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Philip Dudt

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