Cool Lore But Rushed Storylines for The Rings of Power Season 2 Episode 4

Philip: 00:00:00

For the first time we have Barrow-wights, Tom Bombadil,

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and an entwife on screen.

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But Amazon gave these parts very

little time in The Rings of Power

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season two, episode four, and instead

gave more time to maybe cheesy

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parts, or parts that people wouldn't

have looked forward to as much.

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Unfortunately, also the barrow-wights

probably aren't going to show up in

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another episode of The Rings of Power.

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At least it doesn't seem that way.

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So why doesn't Amazon give

more time to these things?

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Who knows?

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That's probably a big fault for Amazon,

is not being able to put more time,

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or just for some reason, not wanting

to put more time, towards these unique

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parts that people would find really

cool and instead focus more on parts

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that wouldn't be as interesting.

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We'll discuss these scenes along

with the lore differences and vision

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differences between Amazon and

Tolkien, especially regarding Tom

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Bombadil Alright, let's dive right in.

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Philip Intro: Welcome, my lords, to

the White City, where you will learn

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more about Middle-earth and discover

differences and similarities between

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The Rings of Power show and Tolkien's

books, and whether Amazon's show,

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episode by episode, is worth watching.

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I'm Philip Dudt your host, and I'll

be joined by Matt Vandevort and

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Mark Schaeffer I hope you enjoy.

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Philip: Hello everyone and thanks for

tuning in to the White City Podcast.

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I'm here with my co host Mark and

we're going to be talking about the

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Rings of Power season two episode four.

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So we'll be talking about just each

each storyline that's in this episode

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along with the lore accuracies and, you

know, some worldview comparisons too,

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of the books and, Tolkien's vision.

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Yeah, So like with that, we've got, we've

got three different storylines here.

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We've got the Harfoots, we have the

elves, and we have the storyline

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with Arondir, Theo, and Isildur.

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Those are, those are those

are the three we got.

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So, start off with the elves and with,

Basically, we got Elrond and Galadriel

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here going to Eregion to see Celebrimbor,

and I guess basically they have the sneaky

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suspicion that Sauron might be there.

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Mark, do you remember how,

like, they remember or think

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that Sauron might be there?

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Mark: So I don't remember specifically,

they find a lot of the stuff happens

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to them and, they like run across the

bridge first, that's like burnt out.

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Again, we see the evil serendipity like,

oh, did a lightning bolt magically happen?

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Is Sauron somehow manipulating

everything in the back of the mind.

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But then they choose to go south,

despite Galadriel's vision through

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the ring, and then they run into

the Barrow Downs and run across The

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Barrow-wights, and there they find

out that the messengers of, like, sent

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to warn Celebrimbor are dead, right?

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And we have this very short scene with

the Barrow-wights and The Barrow Downs,

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and they move on from there after some

guy dies, and they run into the orcs with,

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like, Annatar, sorry, not Annatar, Adar,

who are coming up, to attack Eregion.

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And then Galadriel stays

behind, gives Elrond her ring,

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and then, like, leaves town.

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So what were your thoughts on this,

like, sort of storyline, Phil, and

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do you see any differences between

way this sort of storyline is

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portrayed and the lore of Tolkien?

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Philip: Yeah, so the one thing I was

trying to figure out precisely is when

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they come to The Barrow Downs, where

that was located, in, in the lore.

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Because I know when the, when the

Hobbits come across it, with, I guess

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Aragorn is with them in the books,

and, anyways, when they come across

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The Barrow Downs, I'm pretty sure

that they're, like, not very far from,

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like, Tom Bombadil, to my recollection.

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Mark: Yeah!

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Philip: And that's up, and that's up,

like, north, kind of in between, like, The

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Shire and, would it be Rivendell up there?

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So it seemed like they were in a

different location than, it would

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have been placed in the books, but.

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Mark: So it's definitely like a map,

geographical, geographical inaccuracy.

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It's also a timeline inaccuracy, because

the Barrow-wights are from, like, the

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Witch King, and you remember the Witch

King has, stabs Frodo with a Morgul

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blade that turns him into a wraith?

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Well, there are wraiths that have

been turned by the Witch King

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from whenever he lived up north.

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And so, obviously there are no

Witch King or any of the Nine yet,

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because they have not been given

their rings yet, and we might even

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have seen characters in the show.

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But these are a little early on.

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So while there's like this timeline

and geographical inaccuracy, was there

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anything about their like portrayal

specifically that, you were like, Oh,

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I think this is different.

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Philip: Well, I think one thing is, is

that they've, so at least for the show,

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they've flopped, like, Galadriel being

the commander essentially, and, and a

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bit to like Elrond being the commander.

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And what's interesting too is that

it almost seems like that would be

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more lore accurate that Elrond would

be the one leading like an army

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or soldiers than, than Galadriel.

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Especially if you're getting towards

like, you know, the end of like

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the second age or the third age.

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But that's I mean, that's another

thing just cause I remember, like,

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I mean, I guess Galadriel is still

called Commander, by the High

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King, by Gil-Galad, in the show.

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But, I guess, like, other than that,

like, you've got the, you've got the ring.

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This is interesting, is that, they

get, they run into the orcs, right?

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And so they kind of have to

fight off the orcs and get away.

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And then, Galadriel gives her ring to

Elrond, which is something in my opinion

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is like, I'm thinking, like, really?

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come on now.

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Like, I, I, I, because, another

thing with thinking about it is

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just being more lore accurate.

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Like, wouldn't the ring

make her more powerful?

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In a real sense, and that, like, I don't

know, it just didn't make any sense to

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me why she had to stay behind, I guess.

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But, I mean, she's holding them

off, like, alright, like, sure, you

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know, I mean, they're on foot, so

it's not like they're riding horses.

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It's just, yeah, just the handing off

of the ring, Well I mean, I get it,

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like, she's trying, she doesn't want

the ring to be taken by the enemy.

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But yeah, I guess it's, it's, it's

interesting, like, storyline, at

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least writing the story that way, but,

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Mark: Yeah, I think we're like seeing

alot of the the themes that we've

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touched on before coming back up again.

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I was gonna say the Barrow-wights

that I really actually thought

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their portrayal was pretty good.

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Like that, like, Oh, they're like

creepy and like in the, in the

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books, they're like terrifying.

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Right.

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I wasn't really as bothered

by the geographical and this,

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like, timeline inaccuracy.

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I will say that, like, this episode in

general, and we'll touch on this in the

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other storylines as well, it just had,

like, a lot of one off references to,

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like, characters in the lore, right?

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We'll get to these later, but,

like, there was Tom Bombadil.

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And then there was like the Ents

showing up randomly and it's

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like the Barrow-wights, right?

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It was like these like, but all

of them were really brief and like

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they could have spent a lot of time

with the Barrow-wights and like

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drew, drawn out the seen a lot more.

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Instead it was like this like cameo

appearance rather than like any

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sort of meaningful interaction and

then you're right we would go on

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to the Adar and the Orcs and that

scene also was very strange to me

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where like, and this is the big problem

I have found with the show is like,

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it doesn't have enough magic in it.

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So what the rings do is they enhance

the person's natural abilities, right?

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Like, elves have this natural magic

power that will help preserve their

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realms, and that's what the ring does.

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But because they haven't really

portrayed this in the show, right,

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what they're doing is they're having

the ring do magic tricks, right?

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It just randomly heals this guy, and

you're like, Oh wow, if only they had

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rings later on to help them out, like,

to help heal people, like, Elrond

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has a ring when Frodo gets injured

in The Fellowship of the Ring, right?

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Why doesn't he just

magically heal him, right?

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Like, if these magic rings

could, I don't know, right?

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It's just like, all these lore

inaccuracies are just, like, popping up

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because of this one simple scene of, like,

a guy getting healed from arrow injury.

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But yeah, it's like this idea that, like,

there isn't enough magic in the show and

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therefore they're, like, running into

problems of, like, The ring is going to be

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like, like the Nenya, the ring of water is

going to be just like this magic trinket.

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That scene was also very

interesting in many ways, I think.

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And I will, I was going to

touch on like the interaction

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between Elrond and Galadriel.

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I think that actually is working

right now, and in, in the lore, like

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Galadriel actually leads an army to Dol

Guldur with Elrond at the end of the

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third age, while the rest of them are

fighting at like the Pelennor Fields.

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So Galadriel does lead armies.

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She does go out to battle and stuff.

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Obviously, again, we've said this

before, but she's not really the

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martial artist kind of fighty

person that you see in the show.

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She's more of a magical high lady.

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Yeah.

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And so that, that is like

a little lore inaccurate.

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But I sort of, I guess I wasn't like

too like, oh yeah, she's like going

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off to like save the rest of them.

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I also don't understand why they

all couldn't have run together.

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That was not super clear to me either.

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I felt like, repeatedly in the show,

they've tried to evoke moments from

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the original Lord of the Rings.

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And obviously

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there was like a scene right where

like Aragorn steps out to let Frodo

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escape and he goes up against all these

Uruk-hai, it's like this super epic scene.

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And I feel like they were like,

oh, we're just gonna do that

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scene with like Galadriel.

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I'm like, we're gonna do

switch up a couple things.

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Where like arrows, we're

gonna make it at night.

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But it's just the same scene, right?

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Like it's

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Philip: that's, yeah,

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Mark: And that's like repeatedly

they've done that, right?

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They've tried to evoke other scenes

from like The Lord of the Rings.

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And like sort of have them come over

and I'm just like, you know, I think

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it'd be fun if you made your own shows

and movies, rather than just like

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trying to like recreate nostalgia.

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Right.

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And it wasn't as epic as Aragorn's moment.

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So,

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Philip: no it wasn't, that's true, but

it is the same thing for me, that is

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exactly, exactly what I thought about

whenever, uh, whenever that scene came up

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with Galadriel, yeah, with Aragorn, yeah,

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Mark: but what does this say about

like their difference between Tolkien's

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lore and this, like the worldview of

the people who are making this show.

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This difference that we've seen

in like the magic, And also their

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desire to, like, recreate the past.

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I don't know if you

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have any thoughts on that.

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Philip: Hmm.

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Well, I think that, it's not necessarily

like to start off necessarily a worldview

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thing, but yeah, they're obviously,

they're obviously like trying to piggyback

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off of like the, the other movies

to kind of somehow like get the same

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feeling in these ones and then they're

losing any kind of, I think what you're

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talking about too, any kind of like,

um, just coming up with a new idea.

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They're losing, like, the, that sense of,

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Mark: Originality.

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Philip: Originality.

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Yeah, there you go.

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So because of, because of that,

again, there's necessarily like,

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worldview related, but I think going

off of that, they then tend to write

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something for their own purposes, as

opposed to writing something that's

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just going to like go with the lore,

for instance, you know what I mean?

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Like, hey, like, I, I mean, people

say, well, they don't really

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have much to go off of, you know,

they're kind of restricted by, the

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Tolkien estate and all this stuff.

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And I mean, well, you know,

some of that stuff may be true.

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I think that was still like they

could probably be following the

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timeline better and, you know,

going through things like that.

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So, again, I guess that's not, that's

not necessarily worldview, like ya

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know, comparing with like Tolkien,

like for instance, like Tolkien's

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worldview compared to Amazon's.

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But, I mean, I think in some ways

like Amazon has stuck to the lore,

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but they're also trying to make things

very much appealing to people today.

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And you can kind of see that too,

like more so it's not, not so much

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in the show itself, but like the way

they're advertising the show to people.

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Like if you saw like different

advertisements they had, like

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I saw one on like Instagram,

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there was also just like a video of them

talking at the Comic Con, and it was kind

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of very much the way they were talking

and trying to like get people, you know,

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Get people hooked was very much like

a, just kind of a pitch for like, what

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would get people kind of excited or like

interested in any kind of movie today,

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like something like steamy romance,

kind of a thing between Galadriel and

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Halbrand, and it's like in the show,

there's like nothing actually, except

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for like one scene in the first season.

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So it's just like, I don't know, some

interesting things like that, I guess.

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.

Mark: Yeah.

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I was gonna say that there's this really,

like, weird mix where it feels like they

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have these moments where they try to evoke

the original Lord of the Rings movies.

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So there's this, this

has been constant, right?

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Whenever I said in the first season,

like whenever Halbrand goes in to save

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Galadriel, it's like the Frodo going in

to save Sam after Sam falls in the water

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after he tries to chase him out Amon Hen.

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But like, this moment we had in this

like episode was the moment Galadriel's

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like trying to evoke that moment where

Aragorn stays behind to help Frodo escape.

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But they're also a bunch of these

like really common tropes in modern

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day TV that they're also bringing in.

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And we saw a bunch of those in the

other plot lines that we'll get to,

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but like the quick like steamy like,

Oh, I like checking you out between

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like the two hobbits or whatever.

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That was like, so generic.

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I felt like I was watching some

sort of like rom com or something

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on like some generic TV show.

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Or like the, Oh, I'm going to stick in a

stick to save the person in the quicksand.

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It's like, that's like not Tolkien.

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And I don't know, like, yeah, what I found

about, like, so refresh my, the Lord of

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the Rings movies, not to mention like The

Lord of the Rings books are exactly this

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way, but it's like, refreshingly original.

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Like it's these epic ideas, but

they're not like cheap, potline tricks.

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Right.

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And I think this, this episode

really struggled for me.

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Cause it was like a lot of these like

quick, quick cuts or quick scenes and

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that like, we just moved on really

quickly from one thing to another, like

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one trope or like reference to another.

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And that I thought was like, maybe

what rings of power is at its worst,

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where it's just like cheap nostalgia

bait, rather than like, if like in

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the previous episodes, we actually, I

was like, wow, these are like really

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cool, we get to see Annatar and other

cool moments, but, should we move

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on to one of the other plot lines?

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Philip: Yeah, let's, uh,

talk next about the Harfoots.

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Mark: AHHH!, Got it!

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So, the Harfoots: the Stranger, runs into

Tom Bombadil, and there's some scenes

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there that we'll talk about, I'm sure, and

I have a lot of thoughts on Tom Bombadil,

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his first live action appearance.

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And then, Nori and the other

Hobbit whose name escapes me,

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Philip: Poppy

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Mark: Poppy.

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Nori Poppy run into like a, hobbit from

this, like region of the world who are

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living in holes in the, under the ground.

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And then there's like some lore

implications of them meeting these

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hobbits and apparently Nori's tribe

started off to like go find a place

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where they could all live safely.

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And yeah, it seems like they might be

setting up as like the hobbits finding

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the shire in the end, is going to

be like the last thing, and leading

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all the hobbits there from all over.

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yeah.

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thoughts on this one, Phil?

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Philip: Yeah, there's one thing they

were talking about, because they..

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So Sadoc Burrows was their leader back

with the Harfoots, and, they were just

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talking about how, there was another

guy, Burrows, who was with these people.

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And I guess he had traveled up north

trying to find another place for them

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to live, but these, halflings were still

in the desert, when he got up there.

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So I guess they were like, they

knew that like there was a lusher

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ground for them to live on, but,

they hadn't, hadn't found it yet.

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: 00:16:37

And it's also interesting too, is

like they make them very primitive,

287

: 00:16:43

and you think of just the hobbits,

you know, they're very, you know,

288

: 00:16:47

in hobbiton are, are very, you

know, like Englishmen like, they're,

289

: 00:16:52

they

290

: 00:16:53

Mark: Rural English countryside.,

291

: 00:16:54

yeah.

292

: 00:16:54

Philip: Right.

293

: 00:16:56

They like their teas, and their

dainty, you know, things, and their

294

: 00:16:59

pipes, and that kind of thing,

so they're very, like, proper.

295

: 00:17:03

But of course, like I get like they

could they maybe they needed to

296

: 00:17:08

get to that point, but still it's

it's it's still a gap from where

297

: 00:17:14

Mark: so we'll talk Really quick

about the lore behind the hobbits.

298

: 00:17:18

is that there were different heart

hobbit groups, and therefore that's

299

: 00:17:21

like accurate to the lore that like

different of them settled in different

300

: 00:17:24

regions and there were different

subcultures within these regions.

301

: 00:17:27

If you think about Smeagol, he is from

a different hobbit group than The Shire

302

: 00:17:32

was and The Shire eventually becomes

the nexus of all the hobbits and so like

303

: 00:17:36

all of them sort of mash into one group.

304

: 00:17:39

So there is like, I think, a cool sort

of lore aspect, that like, yeah, it's not

305

: 00:17:43

weird to run into hobbits in a different

part of Middle earth at this time.

306

: 00:17:47

I think my problems with this, this,

scene or this like, the hobbit storyline.

307

: 00:17:53

Well, one continues to be

that it's like kind of boring.

308

: 00:17:56

And two, that it's like, oh, we

have to explain everything and make

309

: 00:18:00

everything about the original series

be something meaningful and impactful.

310

: 00:18:04

So like, it's like, Hey, the discovery of

The Shire is going to be this big deal.

311

: 00:18:08

And it's going to be like this big thing.

312

: 00:18:10

And it's going to be like the whole

show is pointing to here and like,

313

: 00:18:13

wow, doesn't this like, so cool that

they discovered The Shire and it's

314

: 00:18:16

like, that's not that cool to me.

315

: 00:18:18

Like I could have lived a long time,

but never read a book about how

316

: 00:18:21

they discovered the Shire, right?

317

: 00:18:21

Like, and I think that that's like, Oh,

we don't need to explain everything of

318

: 00:18:26

the old show and that's not valuable or

cool to explain something of the old show.

319

: 00:18:31

Yeah, and this kind of touches on

the other part of the storyline,

320

: 00:18:34

which is like, the wizard going

to see Tom Bombadil, but it seems

321

: 00:18:39

very clear that they're setting up

the wizard's name to be Gandalf.

322

: 00:18:42

Like, in the, in the, whenever she's

talking to the stranger, she's like, oh,

323

: 00:18:46

he's like a, a great wizard or something,

and like, they're clearly like, seem to

324

: 00:18:50

be like, throwing out words for his name

that are closer and closer to Gandalf.

325

: 00:18:54

And like, it's going to be this

big reveal that like his name is

326

: 00:18:58

Gandalf and it's like, I don't care.

327

: 00:19:00

I could have lived a long time without

knowing how Gandalf got his name, right?

328

: 00:19:03

Like that's not what makes a show valuable

is showing, like explaining every little

329

: 00:19:07

detail of the old, of something else.

330

: 00:19:11

but yeah,

331

: 00:19:12

Philip: Mhm

332

: 00:19:12

Mark: so that's my issue

with this storyline.

333

: 00:19:15

And other issue is Tom Bombadil.

334

: 00:19:17

So, my issue with Tom Bombadil

is not nearly jolly enough,

335

: 00:19:23

and his boots are not yellow.

336

: 00:19:24

And I cannot stress how much

his boots needed to be yellow.

337

: 00:19:28

But no, I think, in all seriousness,

like, Tom Bombadil, like, he

338

: 00:19:32

is such a strange character.

339

: 00:19:34

Like, read, go back and read

The Fellowship of the Ring.

340

: 00:19:36

You're like, he does not

belong in this story.

341

: 00:19:39

And like, he is so strange and different.

342

: 00:19:41

And I did not get that vibe

at all in this episode.

343

: 00:19:44

Like it was like, Oh, here's a

wizard, who's like, sort of like

344

: 00:19:46

chilling in the middle of thing.

345

: 00:19:48

And yeah.

346

: 00:19:49

And again, it's like middle earth

is like a place full of magic.

347

: 00:19:52

So Tom Bombadil isn't

strange because he's magical.

348

: 00:19:54

He's strange because he's strange.

349

: 00:19:56

Right?

350

: 00:19:56

Like he's just so out there and

he's like singing all the time.

351

: 00:20:00

I don't know.

352

: 00:20:00

It was, a very big, like, letdown in terms

of, like, this does not feel like the

353

: 00:20:05

Tom Bombadil I read in my book at all.

354

: 00:20:07

Philip: Yeah

355

: 00:20:07

Mark: What are your thoughts, Phil?

356

: 00:20:09

Philip: It's interesting how I think

It might have been in our review of

357

: 00:20:14

the official trailer that we talked

about how Tom Yeah, Tom Bombadil didn't

358

: 00:20:19

really I mean, yeah, so doesn't really,

nothing's really affected by him.

359

: 00:20:24

It's not really any like role

that he plays in the story.

360

: 00:20:28

He's just there that the hobbits

passed by, you know, this guy.

361

: 00:20:33

Mark: And he, and he helps the Hobbits,

but he doesn't, like, give them big,

362

: 00:20:37

wise words or anything.

363

: 00:20:38

Like, he plays very little role in,

like, the rest of their journey.

364

: 00:20:42

And it seems like in this episode,

in the show, he'll play a very

365

: 00:20:46

big role in Gandalf's journey.

366

: 00:20:48

Philip: Yeah, with that, it seemed a

little bit odd for him to be talking about

367

: 00:20:53

how he was like, there at the beginning,

of like, almost like the creation of

368

: 00:20:59

everything, almost as though they're

like taking away from like, Iluvatar

369

: 00:21:06

as being like, in the beginning, more

or less, but that was just kind of like

370

: 00:21:10

my sense of it, and yeah, so for him,

for him to be given like, .Like what,

371

: 00:21:17

I guess what really did get me is that

they're treating him like a wizard,

372

: 00:21:24

and I'm like, but he's not a wizard.

373

: 00:21:26

Like he's a, he's not an

Istari, he's not a wizard.

374

: 00:21:28

I mean, does he know magic?

375

: 00:21:30

And is he very magical?

376

: 00:21:31

Like, yes.

377

: 00:21:32

But, yeah.

378

: 00:21:34

Like, that's, about it.

379

: 00:21:36

I don't know.

380

: 00:21:37

Mark: Yeah, so as like a lore check,

the lines they had Tom Bombadil say,

381

: 00:21:42

actually pretty much every single line

they had Tom Bombadil say was a direct

382

: 00:21:45

quote from The Fellowship of the Ring.

383

: 00:21:48

So he does say he's the oldest and

he was there before anything else.

384

: 00:21:52

So the theory behind Tom Bombadil,

if you're like going for an in world

385

: 00:21:55

theory, some people say it's like

Tolkien inserting himself into the story.

386

: 00:21:59

But the in world theory is that

Tom Bombadil is actually a Maiar.

387

: 00:22:02

So he actually is sort of similar to a

wizard in that respect, but he was the

388

: 00:22:06

first person to come to Middle -earth.

389

: 00:22:08

So Illuvatar created Middle earth and

like Tom Bombadil was like there, right?

390

: 00:22:12

And so before anything else, before

like the Valar shaped the world, Tom

391

: 00:22:17

Bombadil was already in the world.

392

: 00:22:18

And he never left.

393

: 00:22:19

So that idea that he calls himself

the eldest is like lore accurate,

394

: 00:22:23

that like he probably was there.

395

: 00:22:26

It is a little bit of a, like a weird

flex, because if this character,

396

: 00:22:30

cause the character is an Istar,

they're like also as old, like, cause

397

: 00:22:34

they were all created by Illuvatar.

398

: 00:22:36

So it's like, well, Tom Bombadil

might've got there faster,

399

: 00:22:39

it's not like this is like this

big deal of like Tom Bombadil's

400

: 00:22:42

like, wow, he's so old.

401

: 00:22:43

Right.

402

: 00:22:43

Like it was, it was a

big deal to the hobbits.

403

: 00:22:45

Cause they were like, you

know, a hundred years old.

404

: 00:22:47

Gandalf, if this character, if

the stranger is Gandalf would be

405

: 00:22:51

obviously just as old as Bombadil.

406

: 00:22:54

Philip: Ok, interesting.

407

: 00:22:56

Mark: My, my issue with it was more

like the qualitative aspect of like.

408

: 00:23:00

It doesn't feel like I'm seeing

Tom Bombadil from the books.

409

: 00:23:04

Philip: Yeah, I got that.

410

: 00:23:05

Yeah, they did.

411

: 00:23:05

I mean, they tried to put in

some, some like songs that he was

412

: 00:23:10

kind of mumbling and what not.

413

: 00:23:12

I thought it was interesting too.

414

: 00:23:15

Mark: But okay, the

415

: 00:23:15

songs and jolliness were like at a one,

they need to like dial it up to 11, right?

416

: 00:23:19

Like he's just such a strange character.

417

: 00:23:21

He doesn't like belong in the story.

418

: 00:23:22

Like, you're not like, Oh, this kind of

guy is like kind of like a weird thing.

419

: 00:23:25

You're like, wow, this guy is

like kind of probably nuts.

420

: 00:23:27

I don't know.

421

: 00:23:28

Right.

422

: 00:23:28

That's like, that's how he

feels in the Lord of the Rings.

423

: 00:23:30

He feels like he's crazy, except he's not.

424

: 00:23:32

And I think there's like this.

425

: 00:23:34

There's a really deep part of,

like, Lord of the Rings where, like,

426

: 00:23:36

everybody around him is, like, like,

Oh, everything's gonna end, and Tom

427

: 00:23:39

Bombadil, like, just doesn't care, right?

428

: 00:23:41

Like, he's, like, the ultimate,

like, doesn't, doesn't give a crap.

429

: 00:23:44

I think there's actually something,

like, deep about that, like, when

430

: 00:23:47

it says something about his, like,

power, that he's not worried, and,

431

: 00:23:50

like, in the show, right, at the

end, he's, like, oh, we're not alone,

432

: 00:23:52

that the Dark Wizard is showing up.

433

: 00:23:53

Like, Tom Bombadil would not care if,

like, Sauron knocked on his door, right?

434

: 00:23:56

Like, he just wouldn't care.

435

: 00:23:58

and like, yeah, that was like, just in

general was, I thought a little bit, they

436

: 00:24:04

should have done a better job with him.

437

: 00:24:07

Philip: Well, the other thing too that

got me was thinking about location again.

438

: 00:24:14

And I'm like, the only time he shows

up is You know, out, out by, uh, by

439

: 00:24:20

where the, like the hobbits ran into the

440

: 00:24:23

Mark: So, not the right location at all.

441

: 00:24:26

Though, the idea, I guess, that

Tom Bombadil moved around a lot

442

: 00:24:30

is like, not that strange to me.

443

: 00:24:31

I also, like, I would have

liked to see, like, Goldberry.

444

: 00:24:35

Because, like, when Tom Bombadil, like.

445

: 00:24:37

So to explain, like, Tom Bombadil a little

bit more, actually, I think it's helpful

446

: 00:24:40

to, like, go through the, the patterns

of The Lord of the Rings, but, like, so

447

: 00:24:45

Lord of the Rings, like, Frodo and Sam,

and the Hobbits will, like, go through

448

: 00:24:48

an adventure that will, like, cause,

like, a crisis, but then there's, like,

449

: 00:24:52

always a house of resting afterwards.

450

: 00:24:55

And as they go along, like the, the

crises get worse and the houses of

451

: 00:24:59

rest get like, not as good each time.

452

: 00:25:02

So like eventually like they go, they

first go to Tom Bombadil's house,

453

: 00:25:05

which is like the idyllic house, right.

454

: 00:25:07

And the next house is like Rivendell

and Rivendell is like really nice.

455

: 00:25:11

Right.

456

: 00:25:11

And then as they go along, they

keep having these like patterns of

457

: 00:25:14

like, even with like, Oh, in the

movies, they don't really portray

458

: 00:25:17

this as well, but like being with,

Faramir is like a house of rest.

459

: 00:25:22

Because they're like with men who

are like the good side, right.

460

: 00:25:25

And they're able to be safe there.

461

: 00:25:26

And the movies are portrayed as

like, they're like in danger.

462

: 00:25:28

But it's like a place of

rest for them in the books.

463

: 00:25:31

And then they go on and there's

actually, it's like the small

464

: 00:25:34

moment they have in Mordor, right,

465

: 00:25:35

of like being safe for a time.

466

: 00:25:37

And they have like this time to regroup.

467

: 00:25:39

Anyways, but to portray this as like Tom

Bombadil is like Tolkien's portrayal of

468

: 00:25:44

like what his ideal like way of life is.

469

: 00:25:48

Right, like, even it's like

this really deep thing of like.

470

: 00:25:51

This joy that's just over

fusive throughout your life.

471

: 00:25:55

And there's guy's just constantly singing.

472

: 00:25:58

I think it's not a mistake that

Tom Bobadil was married, right?

473

: 00:26:01

That he had a wife who he loved

and it was a big part of his

474

: 00:26:03

life and he lived in nature.

475

: 00:26:05

So I think rather than being like

this, like lonely little hermit, it

476

: 00:26:08

was like actually Tolkien's idea of

like what a perfect or ideal life

477

: 00:26:11

is like, an ideal home is like.

478

: 00:26:14

Sorry to like on that rant, but I

479

: 00:26:15

Philip: No, that's cool to, that's cool

to like point out the, kind of the stages

480

: 00:26:20

of the resting places on their journey.

481

: 00:26:22

Yeah.

482

: 00:26:22

I hadn't thought about that before.

483

: 00:26:24

So..

484

: 00:26:24

Mark: Yeah.

485

: 00:26:25

But like, it's also like Tolkien

trying to say something about like,

486

: 00:26:27

Oh, this is the ideal place of rest.

487

: 00:26:30

And also like what the greatest challenges

are, throughout The Lord of the Rings.

488

: 00:26:33

yeah.

489

: 00:26:34

To the hobbits.

490

: 00:26:35

So,

491

: 00:26:35

Philip: Yeah, I guess the last

thing with just Tom Bombadil is

492

: 00:26:38

that like, I just find it like kind

of odd to think about him, like

493

: 00:26:43

showing magic, to, to the wizard.

494

: 00:26:46

Anyways, well, see how it goes.

495

: 00:26:49

Mark: All right.

496

: 00:26:49

Next plot line is Isildur and

Arondir and the lady's name.

497

: 00:26:56

I can't remember.

498

: 00:26:58

Philip: Can't remember her name either.

499

: 00:26:59

And then Theo,

500

: 00:27:00

Mark: Theo.

501

: 00:27:01

So, really

502

: 00:27:02

quick, Arondir finds out that the girl has

pled allegiance to Adar, they put her in

503

: 00:27:08

chains, they take her out, they get stuck

in the mud, the big worm monster comes

504

: 00:27:13

out, and she saves them, and so they're

like, oh, she's good now, and then they're

505

: 00:27:16

like, is she good now, because she draws

Isildur's sword on him, and then the Ents

506

: 00:27:20

show up and they take out her, and then

they have this conversation with Arondir.

507

: 00:27:24

And then now we know the orcs are

there and they say like, well, I've

508

: 00:27:28

let Theo go and now the orcs are there.

509

: 00:27:29

So that will probably, they'll try to

like go and attack the orcs or something.

510

: 00:27:33

So thoughts on that Phil?

511

: 00:27:34

Philip: Yeah, I thought the worm

was kind of like a neat addition.

512

: 00:27:39

I, I guess like, I think there

were like types of worms that

513

: 00:27:43

were in the lore originally.

514

: 00:27:45

I don't know if that would

be a definite type, but.

515

: 00:27:48

I mean, he seems to, seems to fit.

516

: 00:27:52

I don't know that the mud was deep enough

for him to, to live in all the mud like

517

: 00:27:56

that, but, One thing I did find, maybe

you picked it up better than I did, but

518

: 00:28:01

whenever I was watching it, I'm like,

wait a second, how did like the, how'd

519

: 00:28:06

the Ents know that Theo was connected to,

Arondir all of a sudden he's like coming

520

: 00:28:13

out of the tree and Arondir's like Theo

and it's like um I don't think there

521

: 00:28:18

was any communication about this, but

522

: 00:28:21

Mark: Well, yeah, seems like, it seems

like they let everybody go, right?

523

: 00:28:25

Cause that's where, like, the girl's

fiancé shows up or whatever, and now it's

524

: 00:28:29

gonna be like this weird love triangle.

525

: 00:28:31

So, my thought on this storyline

was like, this is where, like,

526

: 00:28:35

everything got, like, super cheesy.

527

: 00:28:36

Like, this is all just a bunch

of like either quick references

528

: 00:28:40

or like cheesy, cliche stuff.

529

: 00:28:42

They're like thinking like mud,

like quicksand or whatever.

530

: 00:28:45

Like that's so generic of like,

oh, the person we don't trust

531

: 00:28:49

like sticks in a stick, right?

532

: 00:28:50

Oh, we all thought she was going

to leave now, she sticks in a

533

: 00:28:52

stick and like pulls us out.

534

: 00:28:54

The worm, like, it was so random,

like, I don't know, right?

535

: 00:28:56

There's this giant worm underneath

and it's like, oh, okay, like,

536

: 00:29:00

I guess this is a thing now?

537

: 00:29:01

Yeah, I guess I felt like it was,

like, so random, but I didn't

538

: 00:29:05

know if I had any thoughts.

539

: 00:29:06

It's, like, not lore inaccurate, but,

like, at the same time you're, like,

540

: 00:29:09

randomly just throwing it in the

middle of nowhere is sort of weird.

541

: 00:29:12

Especially because, like, they could have

spent more time with the Ents, right?

542

: 00:29:15

Like, that was the other thing, is, like,

they threw in the Ents, but that scene was

543

: 00:29:18

so quick, and, like, that was probably the

highlight of the episode for me, is, like,

544

: 00:29:21

you know, the Ents, like the Ents are

like the people who talk really slow and

545

: 00:29:25

that dialogue was like so back and forth

and so fast paced that I was like, this

546

: 00:29:28

doesn't feel like we're talking with Ents.

547

: 00:29:29

I don't know.

548

: 00:29:30

Right.

549

: 00:29:30

It was like, Oh, we're just going to

throw in this reference because we can.

550

: 00:29:34

And yeah, and the, like the love thing

with like between Isildur and the

551

: 00:29:38

girl, like, I just am not feeling it.

552

: 00:29:40

Like, this is just.

553

: 00:29:41

Some soap opera drama thing

where like, oh no, now her like,

554

: 00:29:45

lover is back and do I trust her?

555

: 00:29:47

Like, I promise I won't let

anybody hurt you or whatever.

556

: 00:29:50

I don't know, like very

dumb, very boring to me.

557

: 00:29:54

yeah,

558

: 00:29:55

Philip: Cause it it's, I don't know,

they're kind of taken like this girl with

559

: 00:30:01

a sketchy past and trying to like connect

her with Isildur which, I don't know.

560

: 00:30:07

I mean, I guess it's not necessarily

a bad thing or anything, but.

561

: 00:30:12

It's, it's just an interesting

way of trying to tell the story

562

: 00:30:16

and twist up the storyline.

563

: 00:30:18

Mark: They're tryin' to add like a

little spice to it, but like yeah,

564

: 00:30:21

I think, I think you want to like, I think

you should aim to, like for more epic than

565

: 00:30:26

like cheesy stuff, like plot lines, right?

566

: 00:30:29

Like you think of like Arwen and maybe

that's like a high bar, but like Arwen

567

: 00:30:33

and Aragorn or something, or even

like Eowyn's flirting with Aragorn

568

: 00:30:36

is like totally different than this,

569

: 00:30:38

right.

570

: 00:30:38

And it's just cheesy and it's quick.

571

: 00:30:40

And it's like, Oh, all of a sudden,

like you are falling in love.

572

: 00:30:43

I will say that like, Arondir like

continues to be like the standout actor

573

: 00:30:48

of like, Oh, I get the vibe of like, these

are what elves are supposed to feel like.

574

: 00:30:53

Like in that moment between like

him and the like Ents is like,

575

: 00:30:56

Oh wow this is like, this is what

it's like supposed to feel like.

576

: 00:30:59

Right?

577

: 00:30:59

Like he feels like this mysterious

old person who has this connection

578

: 00:31:01

to nature and like the nature

is like responding back.

579

: 00:31:04

I don't know.

580

: 00:31:04

Like he just says continue like a

standout performance to me, and I

581

: 00:31:07

just like wanted to shout out him.

582

: 00:31:08

Philip: Dude, I saw, that was, yeah,

that was the next thing I was gonna touch

583

: 00:31:11

on too, is, yeah, it's just like, the

whole, like, him, you know, speaking to

584

: 00:31:18

the, to the Ents, or like, you know, kind

of talking to them through magic, Yeah,

585

: 00:31:23

it's like, it just, it just seems like

he's like the best elf in the show and

586

: 00:31:29

he's not even lore he's not even lore!

587

: 00:31:33

Mark: He's not like, not Oh, I was

like born in Valinor, or something.

588

: 00:31:36

He's just like some random dude Right.

589

: 00:31:39

Like, he's the one that like

the most elf, like, right.

590

: 00:31:42

And then be like

591

: 00:31:43

Philip: He's got, like,

a shaved head almost.

592

: 00:31:47

Mark: They did like power is not about

like just fighting ability is like, right.

593

: 00:31:50

His ability to like,

Oh, I'm going to like.

594

: 00:31:52

Lay down my bow and connect with the

trees is like, wow, this is like,

595

: 00:31:56

this is what it means to be powerful.

596

: 00:31:57

Right.

597

: 00:31:57

That like to not always be able to

like cut through your way through every

598

: 00:32:00

single like obstacle, but to be able

to like reason or connect with people

599

: 00:32:05

or to have like power over things.

600

: 00:32:06

Right.

601

: 00:32:07

Yeah, I don't know.

602

: 00:32:08

Philip: It seems like he might be, like,

the one guy who, like, has read the

603

: 00:32:12

Silmarillion, five times, and the, like,

The Lord of the Rings books, like, twenty.

604

: 00:32:17

And he's like, guys, I got this.

605

: 00:32:20

All right, just let me do

606

: 00:32:22

Mark: Yeah, I feel like, actually, I'm

guessing that he studied The Lord of

607

: 00:32:27

the Rings and the way the elves acted

and were portrayed in that, and like,

608

: 00:32:30

maybe especially Legolas a lot more than

maybe other people did, or other people

609

: 00:32:35

just wanted to sort of set their own

tones for the way the elves should act,

610

: 00:32:38

but yeah, like again, like everybody

else acts like they're like a man or

611

: 00:32:43

like a human with like pointy ears.

612

: 00:32:44

And he acts like he's like a

mysterious immortal person, elf person.

613

: 00:32:47

Yeah.

614

: 00:32:48

Like that's, again, yeah, but

again, I, I wish we did more

615

: 00:32:52

time with the ents, right?

616

: 00:32:53

Like why not slow that scene down and

make the ends like talk super slow.

617

: 00:32:57

And like spend more time and some other

actually some like to talk about like

618

: 00:33:01

the the difference in the lore and the

world views I actually think there was

619

: 00:33:04

like some pretty deep things of like the

ends hold on to things for a really long

620

: 00:33:07

time because they're so old and they

age so slowly, She's like forgiveness

621

: 00:33:10

takes an age Yeah, I don't know.

622

: 00:33:13

I, I don't know if Tolkien would,

like, write that, the ents saying that,

623

: 00:33:16

necessarily, but at least, like, you're

trying to say something deeper about,

624

: 00:33:19

like, because, you know, whenever

healing takes a long time, it can,

625

: 00:33:25

forgiveness can also take a long time.

626

: 00:33:27

yeah.

627

: 00:33:28

Philip: That's something that, I

mean, a deep, slow voice doesn't

628

: 00:33:32

have to be an ent, you know, I guess,

but that's what I, you just think of

629

: 00:33:37

Treebeard in the trilogy and that's

what, you know, comes to my mind.

630

: 00:33:42

And like, Treebeard's the only one

who talks in The Two Towers, at least.

631

: 00:33:49

So, I mean, there are, there are

other ends to talk in the books.

632

: 00:33:54

Like the, uh,

633

: 00:33:55

Mark: Quick Beam.

634

: 00:33:55

Philip: Quick beam!

635

: 00:33:56

That's right.

636

: 00:33:56

Yes.

637

: 00:33:57

Yes.

638

: 00:33:58

The, uh, the one elf that, I mean,

the one ent that actually like

639

: 00:34:01

Mark: He spends, actually, most

of the time with, like, Merry

640

: 00:34:04

and Pippin in the books, right?

641

: 00:34:05

Like, he takes him around most places.

642

: 00:34:07

yeah.

643

: 00:34:08

It's interesting.

644

: 00:34:09

So, one thing I will say is, like,

the one Ent was clearly an Ent-wife.

645

: 00:34:13

So, clearly that's why she

has a higher voice, and, yeah.

646

: 00:34:16

I thought their, like, portrayal

was pretty good, except,

647

: 00:34:17

again, the talking slow thing.

648

: 00:34:20

But you're right, like, Treebeard

is, like, was a really good

649

: 00:34:23

portrayal in The Two Towers.

650

: 00:34:25

And they didn't have, like,

a lot of other Ents talking.

651

: 00:34:26

So, maybe this is, like, a little

more difficult than we thought.

652

: 00:34:29

Philip: Yeah.

653

: 00:34:30

But I I totally do agree that the

ent's the ent scene was pretty short.

654

: 00:34:37

I would have liked that to be longer.

655

: 00:34:39

And like, cut down on some of

the other stuff too, I think.

656

: 00:34:43

Mark: Like, the random worm showing up.

657

: 00:34:45

Philip: Random worm showing up.

658

: 00:34:47

Like, I don't think the Harfoots

needed all that time probably.

659

: 00:34:51

You know,

660

: 00:34:51

Mark: don't think the show

has needed the Harfoots.

661

: 00:34:53

I'm gonna be real with you, Phil.

662

: 00:34:56

Philip: Yeah, yeah, they I don't

know man, they, they could have been,

663

: 00:35:02

been done a little better probably.

664

: 00:35:04

It's, I don't know, it's just hard to

say, it's hard to say cause the stranger

665

: 00:35:09

is also just another, like he just needs

to know like who's bad and who's good.

666

: 00:35:16

Like none of this figuring it out.

667

: 00:35:18

Come on guys.

668

: 00:35:19

Like, like he should be the one who is

like figured all this out already, you

669

: 00:35:25

know, by now and it's like, all right.

670

: 00:35:28

We've gotta go like, help, Elendil

671

: 00:35:31

Mark: Face Sauron and whatever.

672

: 00:35:32

Philip: or something,

you know what I mean?

673

: 00:35:34

Or like, let's go find Isildur or

like, something like that to me would

674

: 00:35:40

be like, would be like, that would

be, that would be That'd be good.

675

: 00:35:44

That'd be huge.

676

: 00:35:45

I mean, I get it.

677

: 00:35:46

Like, it's gonna be maybe cool to

like, see the wizards, you know.

678

: 00:35:51

That's maybe a cool idea to have

them go up against each other.

679

: 00:35:54

I get it.

680

: 00:35:55

And maybe they'll try to bank on that one.

681

: 00:35:59

And you think about like, the

dark wizard, like, he honestly

682

: 00:36:04

like, seems pretty legit.

683

: 00:36:06

And just like, and what we've seen of

him, just as far as a wizard's concerned.

684

: 00:36:11

And I guess like, the blue wizards

did, they did roam around, and

685

: 00:36:16

eventually like, they just like, lost

686

: 00:36:18

Mark: Explicitly the blue lil's

wizards wandered around in the east.

687

: 00:36:22

So, if this character is supposed to

be a blue wizard, that could be them.

688

: 00:36:25

Though, why they're not calling

him a blue wizard and calling

689

: 00:36:28

him the dark wizard, who knows.

690

: 00:36:29

Philip: Right?

691

: 00:36:30

Because like, people also have like,

theories that like, they like became like

692

: 00:36:35

dark wizards, like later on eventually.

693

: 00:36:38

Mark: Yeah, so Tolkien actually like, so

Tolkien had changed his mind on the blue

694

: 00:36:42

wizards frequently, but one, the first

theory he had was that they became evil

695

: 00:36:47

and set up cults for themselves, and then

his next theory was that actually they

696

: 00:36:52

like opposed Sauron in the east, like

the Gandalf opposed him in the west, and

697

: 00:36:57

therefore like they actually were critical

to stopping Sauron and we're like good

698

: 00:37:01

guys and Uh I, if like if the show is

trying to portray that the stranger is

699

: 00:37:05

actually a blue wizard then it could be

that like they're playing both of those

700

: 00:37:10

that one of the blue wizards is the dark

wizard who is evil and one of the blue

701

: 00:37:14

wizards is like going to be the stranger

who's good and therefore they're going

702

: 00:37:17

to like fight in the the west, east but

it seems pretty clear that the wizard

703

: 00:37:22

the stranger is going to be Gandalf, and

the dark wizard is probably gonna be

704

: 00:37:26

like a random blue wizard or something.

705

: 00:37:28

They're just gonna throw a name.

706

: 00:37:30

Any more like general thoughts

on this episode, Phil?

707

: 00:37:33

Did you say what your favorite part was?

708

: 00:37:35

Or least favorite part of the episode was?

709

: 00:37:37

Philip: Well, I think, I mean, after

talking about it, it wasn't, it

710

: 00:37:41

wasn't so bad, but I, yeah, I was

bugged by like, how did, how did they

711

: 00:37:47

know that Theo was connected with

Arondir and whatnot, but I guess they

712

: 00:37:53

let everybody out at the same time.

713

: 00:37:55

So that kind of dispelled that doubt.

714

: 00:37:58

And there's some things that seemed

off with, with, um, Tom Bombadil,

715

: 00:38:03

as we were talking about, and his,

like, what was, what was that one, so.

716

: 00:38:11

The one part where he was, like,

talking to, what was it, what was

717

: 00:38:15

the, who he was calling, that the

stranger was like, oh, are we, are we

718

: 00:38:20

alone, or is there somebody else here?

719

: 00:38:22

Mark: Yeah, that was really strange.

720

: 00:38:24

So they like seem to have a

woman singing in the other room.

721

: 00:38:26

Like Goldberry sings with

Tom Bombadil in the books.

722

: 00:38:30

And then the stranger's

like, who is singing?

723

: 00:38:33

And he's like, Nobody,

just me, or whatever.

724

: 00:38:36

And so it seemed like maybe they were

trying to give a nod to the people

725

: 00:38:39

who read the books of like Hey, see,

we know Goldberry exists, and we're

726

: 00:38:42

gonna reference her, but we're not

actually gonna include her in the show.

727

: 00:38:45

Was sort of how I interpreted that.

728

: 00:38:47

Philip: Interesting...

729

: 00:38:48

Or at, least they

weren't showing her then.

730

: 00:38:52

Mark: It seems like they're probably

not going to show her since the

731

: 00:38:54

Stranger's like, I'm all alone and

there's nobody else here or whatever.

732

: 00:38:57

Unless she like, randomly

shows up later on.

733

: 00:38:59

Philip: Okay.

734

: 00:39:00

Yeah.

735

: 00:39:01

Mark: Unless Goldberry is like,

one of the Dark Wizards people.

736

: 00:39:06

Oh my goodness, how would be?

737

: 00:39:08

She's the white lady or

738

: 00:39:10

Philip: Yeah.

739

: 00:39:11

That would be, that would be weird, man.

740

: 00:39:14

That would be weird.

741

: 00:39:15

Mark: I was gonna say my favorite

moment was the, the Ents.

742

: 00:39:18

My least favorite moment was

probably generally the Tom Bombadil

743

: 00:39:22

because it was really disappointing.

744

: 00:39:24

Though honestly, like the ring healing

magically was probably a close second.

745

: 00:39:29

I just am so fed up with the show, the

show's portrayal of magic and I rant

746

: 00:39:33

about it every single episode, but

it's a problem every single episode.

747

: 00:39:35

So, but yeah, I think in terms of

worldview, I was, I was thinking

748

: 00:39:40

about like, what is their view

of the idyllic, like if I see Tom

749

: 00:39:46

Bombadil is like the idyllic life

that Tolkien is portraying is like.

750

: 00:39:50

He has a wife and he's deeply connected

with nature and he's like, so happy,

751

: 00:39:54

and he is singing all the time and he

has like interesting fashion choices,

752

: 00:39:57

but like this idea of like, if that's

like Tolkien's picture of idealism,

753

: 00:40:01

then is there a view of what Tom

Bombadil is different in the show?

754

: 00:40:05

Trying them trying to say something

about what it means to have the idyllic

755

: 00:40:08

life that it is being like all alone, as

opposed to being like with somebody, like

756

: 00:40:13

a wife, or like a connection to nature.

757

: 00:40:17

Um, yeah, I don't know.

758

: 00:40:20

I, I, I don't know if you

have any thoughts on that.

759

: 00:40:22

Philip: Yeah, No, I think, I think

what you're saying there is good.

760

: 00:40:27

I don't know exactly if, it's easy

to say that their opinion of idyllic

761

: 00:40:34

life is like what they're trying to

get across in the show is like with

762

: 00:40:39

the way that they're portraying Tom

Bombadil, but, if it definitely,

763

: 00:40:44

definitely seems that that's Tolkien's

like way of portraying like what, you

764

: 00:40:50

know, life might be at its best, then,

Then it'd be easy to just assume that

765

: 00:40:54

that's the way they're doing it as well.

766

: 00:40:56

But, Yeah.

767

: 00:40:57

I've been also, like, just over

the past few episodes, kind of

768

: 00:41:03

impressed at times, to be honest.

769

: 00:41:06

I came into, like, all the episodes,

but, like, the beginning, episode

770

: 00:41:11

one, with very much a, Oh, this

is not, you know, This is going

771

: 00:41:14

to be the level of season one.

772

: 00:41:16

I'm going to leave my

expectations at that.

773

: 00:41:18

So they definitely have, in different

ways, been better than season one.

774

: 00:41:25

And the lore also has been, I think, in

different places, has been, I think, drawn

775

: 00:41:34

better than, what they did in season one.

776

: 00:41:38

and while I'm not, you know, it's

not perfect and by any means, but I

777

: 00:41:43

don't know it's just, it's, it's a

little bit easier to just have fun.

778

: 00:41:48

In my opinion, like it was a little

easier to have fun with this season.

779

: 00:41:51

I know, I think a lot of people

still came into the show with

780

: 00:41:55

very like, very critical ness.

781

: 00:41:58

I mean give it, give it to all the

serious fans who are, you know,

782

: 00:42:04

giving it a hard time over lore

and everything, which is fine.

783

: 00:42:07

But yeah, it's just kind of like, kind of

like some ending thoughts on all of that.

784

: 00:42:11

Mark: yeah, I, I actually would

totally agree that I really enjoyed the

785

: 00:42:14

season much better than the last one.

786

: 00:42:16

Part of me wonders if it was

my expectations were lower.

787

: 00:42:19

I was gonna say like the first

three episodes I thought were

788

: 00:42:21

much better this last episode.

789

: 00:42:22

I was just like They're

just throwing in references.

790

: 00:42:25

There are a lot of cliches.

791

: 00:42:26

I thought what the first three episodes

did was like, Oh, you focused on like the

792

: 00:42:30

unique storylines of the original season.

793

: 00:42:34

And that was like, I thought more

interesting, but now it seems like

794

: 00:42:36

they're just trying to throw in

references to like other stuff rather

795

: 00:42:38

than focusing on what they've got.

796

: 00:42:40

Yeah.

797

: 00:42:41

I think that's all we

have for tonight, Phil.

798

: 00:42:43

Philip: Yeah.

799

: 00:42:43

Well, thanks, Mark.

800

: 00:42:44

That was, it was a good, good talk and,

good reviewing it with you and, thanks

801

: 00:42:50

everyone for tuning in and we'll catch

you guys for our review of episode five.

802

: 00:42:58

Philip Outro: Thanks for

visiting The White City.

803

: 00:43:00

Before you leave, please subscribe

to our podcast and check us out

804

: 00:43:03

at thewhitecitypodcast.com or

on YouTube or Facebook under

805

: 00:43:07

the tag @thewhitecitypodcast